The Imperial Shipyards
Imperial Entertainment TV and Movies => Star Wars Movies => Topic started by: Tamer on December 22, 2015, 02:29:00 AM
-
If you have seen the movie and feel like reviewing it in depth including revealing content that you liked or didn't like this will be the place.
FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT YET SEEN THE MOVIE YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED THAT THE STORY AND PLOT WILL BE DISCUSSED.
(http://i.imgur.com/qvjSCIF.png)
-
What did you guys think about the new Death Star Planet? At first I thought it was too over the top, but as the movie progressed it reminded me of the Mcquarrie concept death Star. I like how it shoots out like a shotgun destroying multiple planets. I really liked the Mcquarrie concept imagery throughout the movie. Really cool.
-
I don't get what your all talking about with crappy prequels, I like the prequels, at least they told their owns story, didn't contradict, not destroy all that came before it. I also like the original trilogy, but I paid to see the fresh, and new I was promised, not episode 4, with crappy comedy, things based on what's still cannon being contradicted, things that didn't make any sense, and miraculous non cause to effect scenarios.
What did you guys think about the new Death Star Planet? At first I thought it was too over the top, but as the movie progressed it reminded me of the Mcquarrie concept death Star. I like how it shoots out like a shotgun destroying multiple planets. I really liked the Mcquarrie concept imagery throughout the movie. Really cool.
Was looking for something original, and notice how the brushed over a hole system being destroyed, Jar Jar Abrams didn't leave any time for anything to set in, and build. It was we did this, but that doesn't matter because we're doing something else, and then another thing. It should also be a smack to the face to the audience, that it's super unoriginal, when the difference needs to be told to them. Show versus tell, another problem with the movie, it showed a lot, thing after thing, but was an overcompensation from the prequels telling all but not showing.
-
It could have been way more original. But if it was too foreign people would say, ehh its not Star warzy enough. It is what it is and if you actually like the prequels better than this movie that's amazing. Blows my mind.
-
Funny you say that, it wasn't Star Warzy enough for me. All new aliens and droids, for the most part anyway, didn't tether it into the Star Wars universe, they need to do what Lucas did after he made episode 4, he always mixed old with new, to tether it into the Star Wars Universe. Blows my mind you like it better than the prequels, like I said, I didn't want to see episode 4 in an unsavory flavor. Though at the same time older folks never excepted the prequels, I never understood why.
-
To each their own. I still think EP.8 will be better since the characters are now established. Its one of those things, as a trilogy it will be good. If your looking for a religious experience watching this movie you will definitely be disappointed.
-
I suppose, since episode 7 is the final nail in the coffin for the EU, I was expecting at least an adequate replacement, and was super disappointed, it wasn't even close. The writing was the typical sub-par of a Star Wars movie, and the books it replaced were very well written. I understand Disney wanted to go their own direction, but like I said, I wanted at least a descent replacement.
-
You can't possibly replace an entire library of EU with one movie. Be realistic. I never got into EU. I liked the underlying message of the movie. Doing what's right no matter the cost. Every OT movie had a different message. I can't see any message in the prequels at all. That's what makes a good story an underlying cause.
-
Well not the library of course, but the Grand Admiral Thrawn trilogy, didn't hold a candle to it, and Disney mentioned that was gone first to make way for the movies. I didn't get that out of the movie at all, mostly because Finn, and Rey had crappy reasons to run away. I had no feels for Rey with the lack of story behind her abandonment, and it had no cost, for obviously her family, or whatever were never coming back. Or it could reference Han dying, too small a cost for me to care (1 life for many? simply collateral damage), my thought was 1 down 2 to go when he died ;D. The messages where pretty political in the prequels, and struggle between good, and evil, right and wrong, maybe I enjoy politics too much. There were messages in both the two trilogies, I'd argue against 7 for the previous reasons. I still relate well to Luke wanting to get away from Tatooine, wanting adventure, but he's way to whiny fro me to get attached. Solo was badass in the OT, but not in 7, got tired of him immediately after hearing he ran away, as I said, if he learned anything during the OT was that his friends needed him, and he needed them, but they disregard that. Leia a General doesn't make sense at all, when she's never been a solder, or had anything to do with the military. Any attachment to the OT characters I had were severed by the movie right away, so good riddance Han died, and I found the new characters unrelatable. The message I got was my childhood being slaughtered in front of me. An argument for Finn's non-conformism/your past doesn't make your future message would be better, but his character has holes in him, if he was raised to kill as a stormtrooper, he would have never realized it was wrong, they did say from birth, the psychology doesn't add up.
-
Leia was a Commander from the beginning. She had the stolen plans she knew where the base was. She breifed pilots on hoth. She was a commander on endor. What on earth movies have you watched. Your way over thinking the "psychology of the movie. Fin did what he did because he knew it was right. Everyone. Knows what's right the choice they make is their own. Your right the prequels were like watching C-SPAN.
-
I think for me I am gonna boil this movie down into Likes and Dislikes:
Likes:
Rey - she is one tough gal and I was glad to see she was the center focus
Finn - another great character. Smart enough to realize his flaws.
Poe Dameron - Would have love to have seen more of him
Nien Nunb and Ackbar - great to see them again
BB-8 - cute and is gonna be a great astro-mech to compliment R2
Special Effects - I didn't feel like I got too much CGI
Han - Acting was strong and humorous and spot on and he used the bowcaster
Chewbacca - another strong showing for Han's Furry Sidekick
Dislikes:
Predictable Story - talk about a rehash of A New Hope! At least we got a new story with the Prequels!
Leia - between the poor acting and her immovable lower lip I was hoping they would kill her
Han dead? It better not be for real JJ!
Rey, without any training, can do Jedi Mind Tricks and take down Kylo Ren?
Kylo Ren - Uh, he can take down an entire new Jedi Order and Luke, but can't handle Rey?
Luke - probably not his fault, but could you at least utter one line or grunt or something?
Map to Luke- Really? A Grand Jedi Master would leave a map who didn't want to be found? Or wouldn't have let Han and Leia know what he was up too? Or R2?
Luke sitting out the trouble? Shouldn't his connection to the force have said we have problems and I need to go help?
R2 being shut down due to depression? Uh, since when wouldn't that little droid have headed up the search single-handedly?
C3PO with his red arm and not telling us or showing us why? Talk about a missed opportunity there.
No Lando - nough said!
A great big ole set of Winter FO Troopers and Vehicles and no epic ground battle? Daggone it!
Another Death Star Type Super Weapon that uses up a sun? And if the resistance knew you had that thing wouldn't they leave? I mean why didn't they stay mobile like in TESB and ROTJ?
Leia telling Han to get her son back. Uh, I know she is the top general now (not sure why when the other ones were around, where were they btw?) but why wouldn't she have gone with Han to try and rescue her son. That is not the Leia I knew. And her bottom jaw didn't move? And the weak may the force be with you when Rey went to find Luke? And why didn't she go to help find Luke? She showed up in that dress when she should have shown up in smugglers or bounty hunters garb (would have loved to have seen the Boussh disguise again).
So Rey is the one to go find Luke? Uh, shouldn't have R2 or Leia or Chewie or heck even C3PO at least went with Rey to give her some legitamacy? And why didn't Finn go to as it seemed he had some Jedi Powers?
Captain Phasma - what a waste of a talented actress and she was in charge of the FO Troopers and got taken in by oldster Han and then didn't resist and then gave in and powered down the shields (another rehash btw) without resisting?
I also wanted a ROTLA crossover with the ground battle where a FO Trooper did all this fancy saber work only to have Han just blast him (like in Raiders). Opportunity for another movie I hope (JJ Han better not be dead!)
New Bad Guy Sith in charge? Uh, what was his name? I think we should have heard a bit more about him and how he corrupted Ben and became top Sith?
Why was Anakin's Saber in the new cantina? Wouldn't Luke have known the psychic force connection might be bad? And what was up with that weird flashback Rey had?
Wow, sounds like I got a bit nit picky, but feels good to vent. Did anyone else notice those things? I know it sounds like I found way more negative than good, but I still liked the movie a good bit.
-
I would have to agree with most of your points. There were several parts that I thought were unnecessary. Disney rushed the script. Michael Arndt was fired a month into preproduction, so Abrams and kasdan or whoever ended up writing it only had a short time. Their excuse was the SW universe is cyclical, which seems lazy to me. I think the reason they killed han was because Ford is sick of star wars. Compared to Ford's other characters like Indiana Jones, Air force one, witness, fugitive, Solo is way out of place. That's why in TESB they froze him in carbonite, because they didn't know whether he would return. He also asked Lucas to kill him in ROTJ. I don't think it was JJ'S idea. Fisher hasn't acted in many many years. She also lost a ton of weight so she probably had a facelift. Her speech was odd.
Kylo ren I thought was awesome. He was an arrogant bastard. An amateur, you can tell by his lightsaber how it was kind of shotty craftmanship. He thinks he can take out Skywalker, but he would be mistaken. Rey kicked his ass but remember he got shot with a bowcaster, that crap hurts. Rey was badass too, absolutely no training, but she kicked ass. It shows the force is an ability that isn't necessarily learned. Luke never finished Jedi school now he's a master. Same stuff. My theory is she is Luke's daughter. She was waiting for him to return but instead she needed to seek him. That's why the lightsaber came in her possession. Destiny, a common theme in star wars.
-
I liked it myself. I understand that it seems like a rehash of Ep 4; but I was never much a big fan of the EU novels....
-Rey; I have a hunch she is the daughter of Luke. (unknown to her, maybe because Luke told her mother to never tell her about him being her father....) Also, I have a hunch that she is way younger than Kylo Ren/Ben...by several years. This could fit in with her mother having been one of the X-wing pilots that helped Luke with his New Jedi Order that got wiped out by Kylo. Also, for those who think Rey is Han's daughter, that doesnt really track with the lines in the movie, nor with the reaction Han had to her... He doesn't recognize her, and is impressed with her technical skills... but if she is Luke's daughter, it would follow she inherited Anakin's technical skills AND Luke's uncanny ability to communicate very well with astromechs. (BB8)
-no New Jedi Order; possibly, just possibly, Luke was not going to form an academy just yet, but wanted to do 1 on 1 training until he had enough experienced Jedi Knights and Masters to start the academy.. until Ben turned to the Dark Side and became Kylo Ren.
-Ben/Kylo, He seems way whinier/brooding/adolescent than Anakin, BUT perhaps this is due to him not having been in enough battles, or fights, not having experience facing Dark Side users such as Snoke. Recall that in Ep 1-2, Anakin was very inexperienced and young, and has desires to become powerful and such.... unlike his appearance in 3-6; where he was a leader, a warrior, and an accomplished Knight before turning to the Dark Side, and then 20 years of being a Dark Lord, leader of many units but still subservient to the Emperor.. I noticed that Kylo Ren does not get directly involved with strategy, tactics, or real planning.... He leaves that to General Hux who is a decent stand in for Tarkin. It seems more that Kylo is basically a thug agent who is trying to get the information to send Captain Phasma and her units to capture whoever/whatever.
-Captain Phasma; I was a little disappointed by her relative lack of involvement other than leading and being blunt. Hopefully she survived and will show up in ep8
-FO troopers, they seem much better trained than the Imperial Stormtroopers, maybe on the same level as the ARC Commandos of the Clone Wars era. I especially liked the scene with the baton/shield trooper versus Finn using a lightsaber, AND the fact Han basically shot him with a bowcaster (similar to ROTLA, but instead of Han facing off the guy, hes support)
-Poe Dameron, I like him. He's pretty cool... basically a combo of both Biggs Darklighter and Wedge Antilles. I hope we get to see more of him in Ep 8
-Finn, he is decent. Not the best, but not the worst. His doubts on the FO, and his training, his mind.... Basically he got shellshocked when his friend/comrade died in the attack on the village, and he started to think for himself then, and listened to the Village leader (Max Von Sydow, great actor, shamefully short scene) Finn might have force powers, or he might be just halfway good at melee combat and working in Sanitation might have given him time to think of other things other than combat. As to why Finn didnt go with Rey to Luke? He was injured and in a coma. It seems like he's not gonna come out of the coma in time to go with Rey.
-Supreme Leader Snoke, heres a rather unknown dark side user. I have a little theory about his origins though. He's the son, or one of the young Dark Side Adepts/Imperial Inquisitors from the Imperial era. Possibly his race is also long lived, and hes been cultivating his Dark Side skills without Palpatine catching on.
-Maz, here's a little alien who's lived for a thousand years, knows about the Force, but states explicitly that she is no Jedi, nor Sith. Perhaps she was a confidant/friend of Luke, helping him find the First Jedi temple, and in return, kept his Saber among other things... I thought I saw a piece in the chest that made me think of Padme, that Japhor snippet that Anakin made for her.. if it turns out that Luke traveled to Naboo to see the grave of his mother, and was given the snippet, perhaps he left it with Maz as a safekeeper for him. Perhaps he knew someone would come and find him, so imbued the saber with some Force memories as a way to tell if the one who brings it back is either worthy of it, or a way to guide his daughter to him if she needed him.
-Leia, Well.. She's getting old in age, perhaps she didnt want to risk her life again, not after all she has worked to keep the Resistance running and leading them from the back. She was a commander in the OT, practically a leader, and most likely a former Senator who has retired.
-Han Solo, I felt it fit his character very well that he would rather not face Leia over the failure of his son to stay on the Light Side, and over the fact that he is the father of a Dark side user. How would you feel, if your own son disowned you, and work against your dreams, and had a desire to bring back the bad old days? Remember, in the OT, he had a tendency to run from big problems, sometimes coming back for his friends, but when Luke disappeared, and Leia went to become a general, maybe he felt he needed to get back in the old game of smuggling and making runs? How many people have done just that in their lives? Instead of working up the courage to stay committed to the path, they go back to the old ways that they know, and not trust people anymore, especially after losing his son to the Dark Side?
-Chebacca. He did good in this. Believable and fitting his character. Although my hunch is that he's tired of being Han's conscience every so often, and Han not listening to him... he decided to not argue with Han anymore and just correct him whenever he misstates something.
-Droids, Well they could have been handled better for the OT pair, but I like the idea of R2D2 getting rather old and his circuits not working as well as they should be... Remember how often he would get damaged and rebuilt? I am anxious to see how R2D2 is in Ep 8. Hopefully we will see Luke fly his old X-wing if he kept it somewhere around the island. I am also curious to see how R2D2 and BB8 get along. I like BB8's character and behavior.
-tech shown, its pretty consistent with the entire movie canon so far. Chewie's bowcaster seems a bit over powerful, but remember that scene in Ep 4 where Han and Chewie chase a squad of troopers into a platoon room? One of the troopers basically got knocked away/flew away from a blast from the bowcaster (its a single shot in the scene), so it follows the canon so far. Hans blaster makes it comeback, a little worn, but that make sense for the age. The ships are all refreshed designs, and I love that they put an actual 2nd seat, and turret for the gunner in the new TIE fighters. The Millennium Falcon is shown with new problems and a new communication dish which is a nice reference to Lando accidentally ripping off the dish in ep6. The new shuttles and the Star Destroyer are also good looking ships. I am hoping to see a new style A-wing or B-wing, possibly a brand new Y-wing design as well. I could have sworn I saw a couple of 4-legged things in the background where our band of heroes were standing by the cliffside..I hope to see similar things in Ep 8 up close and personal.
-aesthetics, overall I like the way everything looks, down to the Resistance X-wings being battle worn and used... Likely they were former Republic Navy ships before the FO came to be.... The lack of the Republic Navy or Republic Fleet is explained away by the first usage of Starkiller base. The planets, and the styling of everything is good to me. I love that they show a sand pit swallowing the wrecked TIE and it blowing up from the reactor... as well as the wrecks all over Jakku.
Plot wise, it is a bit thin in spots, but overall it fits the OT theme and PT theme of cyclical problems.
To sum up, personally, with what JJ Abrams had to work with, and with the time crunch, this is a decent movie, one I will watch again in theater and most likely buy DVD or BR disc if I get a BR player :)
-
OK, a few points of reference here, I'm not going to argue or debate with folks for no reason because we each have our own feelings: Disney and Lucasfilm have said from the beginning that they have almost completely disregarded the EU for the new films. This isn't news or a change in direction, it was the plan from the beginning. There was so much from the EU that they'd NEVER be able to do all of it, and would leave fans angry. They would also be angry if it wasn't exactly like the books, because that has been proven to be impossible. Look at every book-turned-movie ever made. Also, if you remember from ANH, no one ever saw what the people on Alderaan were doing or the aftermath of that, so the destruction of what appeared to be Coruscant (while still huge) isn't anything new.
Now, I will agree that it was a bit far fetched that Rey was able to combat Kylo Renn with no training, sure. However, if I were a betting man, I'd be willing to be that Rey is the daughter of Han and Leia, and the know it. She was dropped off to hide her from Ben Solo when he turned to the Dark Side. She's strong like he is, and by Episode IX, we will see them square off. Yes, that did happen in the EU between Jacen and Jaina (and Starkiller Base was also mentioned in the EU). I think the reason Han was so quick to accept Rey and bring her aboard and her knowledge of mechanics was because he knew who she was after she said where she came from. Leia knew it also, probably due to the Force. Luke knew it when she presented him with his old lightsaber. it calls to Rey because she has the blood of Skywalker in her, just like her brother, mother, and uncle. Just my feeling on it, so we'll have to see how it turns out.
I was devastated to see Han die. We ALL knew it was coming, but it didn't make it any easier. Oddly enough, Kathy from Lucasfilm has said that EVERYONE present during the release party (Ford included) will be back for the next film, without exception. In what capacity, I don't know. But it's Chewey and Rey now.
I do find it odd when they find these "uncharted star systems," in the movies, books, and video games. You'd think that it'd be pretty well mapped out after millennia, but I guess not. The fact that Luke was hiding in such a system isn't far fetched, and makes sense. Yoda was hidden in such a system as well. I don't think Leia went with Rey because she knew Rey needed to make the connection with Luke on her own. Jedi intuition.
Captain Phasma isn't done. A small, and agreed wasted role in this one, sure, but not the end of her. More importantly, who is this Snoke? They don't refer to him as "Master" Snoke, but we know he's a Sith Lord. Where did he come from? Is he indeed Darth Plageuis as fans have speculated? Who knows yet, but it will be interesting to see how he completes Renn's training.
I do love the McQuarrie references throughout. That was classic. Overall, I'm very happy with the movie. It brought back a lot of the original feel, with original characters, but fleshed out an all new feel all the same. A year and a half until Episode 8, and only a year until Rogue One (between ROTS and ANH), so we've got plenty more to get excited for.
-
Lots of great points in here. Keep it coming folks.
-
I disagree with the idea of Rey being Kylo's sister. That's already too close to the EU stuff AND repeating the twins thing from OT...... I am more in favor of Rey being Luke's daughter, and Kylo's cousin... since she came from the same family he did, but is not directly related to her... Also, with that odd flashback where Kylo kills someone and young Rey was screaming "come back!".... and Maz saying whoever she's waiting is never coming back (her mother most likely)... it would make sense if Kylo killed her mother, while Rey was dropped off, than if she was Kylo's sister, and him NOT killing her, and NOT bringing a young Rey to Snoke to train....
-
I disagree with the idea of Rey being Kylo's sister. That's already too close to the EU stuff AND repeating the twins thing from OT...... I am more in favor of Rey being Luke's daughter, and Kylo's cousin... since she came from the same family he did, but is not directly related to her... Also, with that odd flashback where Kylo kills someone and young Rey was screaming "come back!".... and Maz saying whoever she's waiting is never coming back (her mother most likely)... it would make sense if Kylo killed her mother, while Rey was dropped off, than if she was Kylo's sister, and him NOT killing her, and NOT bringing a young Rey to Snoke to train....
How would Kylo killing Rey's mother be more different from the EU than them being twins ( to fill for those who don't know, a Solo boy kills Luke's wife in the EU), twins can be genetic, making it necessarily be overused. I do agree that her being Luke's daughter would make far more sense, especially how the blade called to her. The saber being imbued with force memories, a bit odd, and not exactly how the force works, though whoever has the rights always seems to be changing it (both Lucas and Disney have/are doing it), but not far off based on known things about the force. Objects can be force sensitive, and that should still be cannon based on the Ilum episode of the CW, with their saber crystals. I also think the vagueness of Kylo's fall missed out on a good character building point, had their been a little jedi order, and he killed them all except for Luke would have improved the darkness of his character. I understand they probably want Luke to explain that, but he's clearly not as dark as he wants those around him to believe, making it seem a bit counterproductive in the next movie if they plan on making him darker, and using that story as a tool to portray him that way, would mean he was darker, lighter, darker. Granted the average movie goer would not catch that if told properly, but anyone paying attention should catch it. The light side also doesn't pull at a person, where the dark beckons you further down it's path, and acts like a personality poison. Anakin, and Vader were like split people, it called him in, and corrupted him to his core. In 7 though they act like that's not a thing. On the other hand, if the event of his fall was a moment of rage where he did something he feels he could never atone for, would make him feel he belongs to the dark, and the light wouldn't take him back, so he just fallows the path he thinks he must walk. If this where the case, I would get back on board, would really up the depth to the story. Kind of used with Vader, would be rather overused for EU fans, but it would be a good rich story that I think would be appreciated widely.
-
I watched TFA and I have to say it is indeed a good SW movie, and remember I'm a big OT fan. The acting was really fine, Han was great (including solo ;), with Rey and Finn, and with Leia), you can feel Harrison did his best for this role, Rey and Finn totally have the chemistry going, hope we'll see more of Poe Dameron. I also liked Kylo's quite complex character torn between the two worlds, not a powerful Sith, but an unbalanced wannabe baddie who finally chooses his path.
The overall plot was a bit too safe, by following OT (ANH and ESB) steps, but was kind of understandable considering this was the first movie from a new trilogy (or even 2 trilogies, who knows). Special effects were great, but that was to be expected. Waiting to see the next "Death Star" in episode 8. :P
Phasma and Luke were a bit of a disappointment. Phasma really should have had more going to her, hope she will come back, and Luke in the final scenes was too odd. It would have been ok for a short scene, but it was too long, and became weird. :-\
In the next films we also need to find out and understand how and why Rey has access so fast to the Force, because otherwise it would be weird (Luke's daughter maybe but even so, you know what I mean). I didn't like the scenes with the tentacle monster on Han's ship, it was too forced, and also a bit the way Finn turns against his fellow Stormtroopers, he found his way, but shoots his former colleagues too easily, at least at the beginning.
My personal conclusion: TFA beats the Prequels the same way furry Ewoks beat both the Rebels and the Empire on Endor LOL :P
It is not perfect, but a good start for the new Star Wars.
-
Once again more great points. I also like the fact that no one is tearing anyone up if they disagree. Keep it going folks!
-
I think for me I am gonna boil this movie down into Likes and Dislikes:
Likes:
Rey - .......
.......Dislikes:
Predictable Story - talk about a rehash of A New Hope! At least we got a new story with the Prequels!
Leia - between the poor acting and her immovable lower lip I was hoping they would kill her
Rey, without any training, can do Jedi Mind Tricks and take down Kylo Ren. ........
..... Wow, sounds like I got a bit nit picky, but feels good to vent. Did anyone else notice those things? I know it sounds like I found way more negative than good, but I still liked the movie a good bit.
Agree on all the pluses and most of the minuses.
Why Anakin and Luke's blue saber? That's the one that fell into the bowels of cloud city. Did the salvager also grab Luke's amputated hand and why wasn't that in the box?
Like TESB, Ford was the best part of TFA, and he delivered the obligatory, "I've got a bad feeling about this" line. Han's death was the movie's emotional kick in the gut and is setting us up for the eventual avenging of Han or the redemption of Ben Solo.
My least favorite part of the film was sitting next to my mother in law. It got to the point that she was asking multi-faceted questions about who was whom and what their relationships was. I had to move. I don't know if I didn't like the movie because of the movie or because I couldn't emerse myself.
-
Agree on all the pluses and most of the minuses.
Why Anakin and Luke's blue saber? That's the one that fell into the bowels of cloud city. Did the salvager also grab Luke's amputated hand and why wasn't that in the box?
You bring up a good point about the particular saber, and why not the green one from ROTJ... My guess is that Luke still has the green Saber, and likely Vader's saber from when he dragged Anakin to the Imperial Shuttle in the Death Star 2 hangar...
HM. Looking at Darth Vader's red saber handle, and then at the blue one with the silver pieces (Ep 2,3, 4, 5), I am not sure if it is possible that the red one could have had a change of projector and crystal to look just like the old one with the blue one, IF the Cloud City one is the one that fell away from the hole that Luke ended up falling through (or what seemed to be his hand and saber falling into the planet's gas depths)
-
A little late to the thread but I did enjoy the movie. I saw it with some close friends (I couldn't see it without them, it wouldn't have felt right). We talked about it heavily afterwards. We agreed, yea it seemed like a rehash of ANH but this definitely takes the bad taste of the prequels out of your mouth.
The scenes with Han & Chewie were great, best parts of the movie hands down. I was very sad to see Han go, but I saw it coming. Especially outside of the film, how Ford felt about Han. I wonder, if Ford felt differently about Star Wars, if he would have been killed off? It needed to happen though, having all the main characters survive again would seem unrealistic. It was hard to watch for me, here it is a few days later and I feel I'm still in shock. Partly because he's Han freaking Solo, the other is I've seen a lot of movies with Harrison Ford and he never dies.
I loved the Poe Dameron character. I even like the name, its got a very Star Wars feel to it unlike General Hux. As many of you know, I love the dogfights and space battles. Poe has the swagger of Han but a Resistance pilot. How about that 10 TIE Fighter kill streak he had? Sadly no mention of Wedge though. Awesome to see the return of Red Squadron, as well as the first appearance of Blue Squadron. I loved all the nods to the original trilogy. Did anyone notice the helmet Rey puts on is Luke's X-wing helmet from the OT?
Awesome to see Luke again at the end! I really wanted him to say something, but after seeing it I think that scene worked better with no lines.
Ah, so many things rushing through my head. I'll probably see it again this weekend and I can gather more thoughts and process everything.
Also, was it too much to ask for to have Admiral Ackbar yell "It's a map!"
-
Did anyone notice the helmet Rey puts on is Luke's X-wing helmet from the OT?.
(http://media.comicbook.com/2015/11/sw-prop-35-1024x768-160073.jpg)
(http://cdn.movieweb.com/img.news/NEohL4lpab2bqu_1_1.jpg)
Rey's helmet from wrecks;
(http://static1.1.sqspcdn.com/static/f/545460/14996306/1320601985043/ESB_Luke_Hero_XWing.jpg?token=MGLogieV%2Bj4GdR1hKGvFmUuKmsM%3D)
Luke's helmet, ESB (Hoth departure scene)
Quite different....
(http://www.oocities.org/athens/acropolis/6774/goodporkins.jpg)
Same yellow symbols, different color scheme overall though.
(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b20/superjedi/Rebel%20Pilot%20helmets/IMG_1357.jpg) (http://s16.photobucket.com/user/superjedi/media/Rebel%20Pilot%20helmets/IMG_1357.jpg.html)
yellow overall helmet has red symbols much like the blue one on Rey's earpiece.
Also, was it too much to ask for to have Admiral Ackbar yell "It's a map!"
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHA That would have been a cheesy but fitting line!
-
Wow even more good points. I didn't even notice that about Luke's saber or the rebel pilot helmet.
-
Rey's helmet says Raeh on the side, yes I can read Aurebesh, thought it would be fun at some point in my life, not sure what Raeh means though? Could be gibberish, that's what it is like 50% of the time, depends on how in depth the artists go into detail. Or it could be the obvious and mean Rey, I suppose it would be pronounced the same. I think a big part of why I didn't like it was the lack of emotional attachment to the original trilogy, I never saw the OT in theaters, I wasn't even born yet, and the prequels started coming out when I was 4. So I grew up watching both, and can't say I prefer one to the other, my favorites order probably 3, 4, 5, 2, 1, 6. The prequels are exactly what I wanted them to be based on Ben Kenobi's short description in 4. An empire doesn't need a description of it's political structure empires are all the same. I enjoyed the politics, learning about the galaxy before the empire, and how that empire was able to come about. Also, if Luke, Kenobi, and Yoda were cool jedi, we got a hole order of them, with Yoda as it's grand master. I don't get what anyone was expecting from them that they didn't deliver on. Yes they're not as well written, but the prequels aren't stellar writing either, nor that better cast. At least the prequels told their own stories, and weren't rushed, or full of miraculous events. Sorry a bit off topic, but the Prequels definitely need a voice in this crowd. Was talking episode 7 over with my fiancee again today, and remembered another problem with episode 7, all the blood. Lightsabers, and blasters both cauterize wounds, so why was Kylo, and Finn's pal bleeding? Well, for Finn it was they needed you to know which trooper he was, but it was cheep writing that didn't fit the universe.
-
I noticed that too, about the blood. Thing is a hot laser wouldn't kill you, unless your head was chopped off or you were stabbed in the heart. Because a hot laser would seal the wound. In the real world some modern rifles are designed to cool the bullet so the heat WON'T seal the wound. Remember the cantina scene where obiwan cut the arm off ponda baba/walrusman, his arm was bleeding. So the lasers could be a cold plasma or something like that. Something that was illuminated not by heat but some cold energy. We don't have that kind of technology in the real world. We have Nonthermal and Ultracold plasma that is used in science but its very fragile, anyway its not hot. The concept of a hot laser started in the prequels. And again people can get shot with a hot laser and not even notice it. If it were ionized particles at room temperature it would do more damage, because of the bleeding effect.
I'll have to check, but I think Leia had blood on her ACE bandage in ROTJ. Anyway why would she need a bandage if the wound was sealed by a hot laser? She wouldn't bleed. No infections could set. Same thing with Luke when he got his arm cut off. They had him in the falcon with his arm bandaged. More and more holes in the prequels I'm glad they didn't pass on to the new film. And if someone says Star Wars isn't Star Warzy, I'll probably short circuit.
-
You guys have to see this video, its hilarious!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Og4DX8xFTNk
Enjoy. And Merry Christmas everybody.
-
In the prequels they don't bleed, the Leia pic shows no blood, and Luke's doesn't bleed, and they still bandage burns in the real world. I knew someone would bring up the cantina scene, but that's he only time it happens. Changing what is defined as a laser, as little as that makes sense in the real world, to anything else would be too far on their part. Clearly in Ep. I when Qui-Gon Jinn cut through the blast doors at the beginning proves it's hot. If it is in everything but that one scene, that would make that one movie inconsistent, an OT movie, not the prequels, though I'd accredit it to Lucas not having the idea fully fleshed out in the first film. Not true about only being shot through the heart, or head cut off to kill, any abdomen hit would kill, and be very hard to fix, even with medical attention. Again, like Qui-Gon, he was dying for a wile, but with your organs scrambled he couldn't have lived. No pain would be true (though depending where I think something internal would be felt, lack of blood flow or, something), but the hit defiantly has a decent impact, and would have immediate effects, for example a leg hit were lack of pain, the lack of muscle tissue would make it so your not going very far.
-
Big difference between being burned and being cut with a laser. I'm looking right at Leia's bandage and there is blood showing through. She has pink blood! If Ponda Babas blood was a mistake why didn't they change it in 1997 in the SE. After Luke has his hand severed he puts his nub under his armpit to cut off circulation. If you were shot with a laser in the stomach it would take weeks to die. Even if you were shot in the stomach with today's bullets it would take days, BECAUSE of the blood loss. Without external or internal bleeding many killshots would be survivable.
They couldn't put a bunch of blood in the prequels because it would have been rated R. everyone got shot up and sliced in those movies it would have been a bloodbath. 7 has a PG-13 rating because of all the blood, it was definitely done on purpose, to appeal to an older crowd. Prequels were made for kids, I was 12 when ep.1 came out. I thought it was childish.
And another thing notice how close the lightsabers got to people's faces throughout the saga. If it were a hot laser with temperatures in the thousands of degrees, their faces would burn up. Plus the hilts would get too hot to handle, and the blaster barrels would warp under intense heat. It could be possible that a cold laser would have a melting effect on metal because it could speed up the molecules at such a high rate the material would melt. That's just an idea because the technology doesn't exist. Anyway its a NEW Star Wars movie sort of, just enjoy it with the rest of the world.
-
Anyway its a NEW Star Wars movie sort of, just enjoy it with the rest of the world.
I don't have to enjoy something that wasn't good (right to my opinion), just because the EU meant nothing to you, for that's where my attachment to Star Wars stems, doesn't mean I have to like it. This movie pales in comparison, like I said I was expecting an adequate replacement, at least for the Grand Admiral Thrawn trilogy, not the exact same, Disney was very specific, just something the same caliber, and it wasn't. Disney destroyed the EU, by far the bast part of Star Wars, because to be honest, the more I read, the less I liked the movies, ill written, poorly cast movies, still love them (1-6), but Revan's story alone is superior to anything Disney could ever write. True I new that going in, but for J.J. supposedly being such a "great writer" this movie holds the sub par writing standard they all have, was still expecting some amazing writing. For your information, the majority of people are saying it just ok (ok's pretty good for first of 3 though I'll admit), unless they have emotional attachment to the OT, because of all the nostalgia factor, they tend to like it. Me, and those like me are all, you destroyed the EU for this? You also have to realize, since I read the EU it's very in depth Star Wars, very deep stuff, if you just like the movies your used to not very deep concepts, not very good acting, OT had decent, but Ep. 4 was only because it was a classic Greek hero story. We're used to two completely different things, if I only watched the movies, I'd probably like it too, but nope, I'll give 8 a redemption chance, and hopefully Rouge One will be better, but until then, they literally killed Star Wars for me, Literally the EU is done, Star wars as I knew it IS destroyed.
-
You can hate it if you want. I'm just saying give it a chance. Its supposed to be fun. Its a new Star Wars movie, episode 7. Its entertainment. It doesn't line up with your idea of how it should be, its not the end of the world. The old EU is gone. I bet it does suck I get it. New EU is coming in form of comics, games and books it won't be the same because it won't be the same. Im sure there will still be a HUGE following for the Ledgends. Now that its starting over, I kind of would like to get into it, the comics look really cool. I want the Lando and Darth Vader books, to see how they are. I didn't think 7 was a genius movie. I found myself shaking my head at times. JJ Abrams is best known for revitalizing Star Trek. I associate his style with Star Trek for the most part.This movie was mostly propped up by the nostalgia for the OT. It was like a 32 year reunion for Star Wars characters. That's why I didn't care if Ford or Fisher were in this movie. When I see the aged Harrison Ford I immediately think of that terrible Indiana Jones movie, not Star Wars. It had too much comedy for me, like watching SpaceBalls at times. But 7 was better than I expected. It was entertaining, I didn't fall asleep. The effects were great. The new characters were awesome. In some ways I like rey better than ANH Luke or TPM Anakin. I really felt for her, scavenging for survival all alone. Surrounded by crooks and scoundrels trying to steal what little she has. Finn was pretty cool, he's just a regular guy. He did what he thought was right even if it meant the whole First Order chasing him. I like a good hero movie. Kylo Ren had awesome powers, but he did throw temper tantrums. He knew the Dark side was wrong, he struggled whether to turn back or not. He was just a little punk sometimes, they could have made him cooler like his dad.
I do like the prequels, I have a growing appreciation for them. Certain things just irritates me, about it. The basic story was good. The effects were too much. The directing was the problem, for the most part. JarJar and the gungans just ruined ep.1 it would have been great if not for him and a few campy scenes. Also if Anakin was a little older, and he wasn't a slave who owned a pod racer and a Droid. The beginning was awesome and so were the lightsaber fights.
Rogue one will be cool. Its going to be like a war movie, which will be sweet.
I think 8 will be better, just because the characters are now established. Out with the old in with the new. We'll see more Skywalker less Leia probably. Both Rey and Ren will grow stronger. Hopefully no solar powered death star. If rey is Luke's daughter it will work perfect with 1 and 4. Because that would mean 1,4 and 7 would be about a Skywalker living in the desert coming from humble beginnings. Being swept away into the war of good vs. evil. That would fit into the saga as a cyclical theme.
I REALLY don't like the idea of the Solo spinoff. I imagine it being like Blow, but instead of coke he's selling spice, and instead of getting locked up he gets frozen in carbonite.
-
I REALLY hope 8 is better, because, like I said, I want to like it, I agree it is new Star Wars, but I got new all the time in the EU, with a ton of flavors. Right now the new cannon is very stale, all about just before episode 4 to just before 7. I hate only one time period to read from, and of corse it's my least favorite time period, even the prequel time period I enjoy better, but nothing yet. I think I'll read Star Wars: Aftermath, in hopes it will give me more connection in episode 7, because it's the books are what gave me a strong affinity for the OT characters. Never thought highly of Han though, and I hope they don't drastically change his beginnings because I really enjoyed him being an imperial officer that tried to free all the Wookiees, but only got Chewie out. Though so far they've been overcompensating from the EU, purposefully changing things in spiteful ways. It's just odd if that were a coincidence. It just made sense to me, he claims he's good at hiding from the empire, cool reason why was that he was an officer. Hopefully Boba will make that movie great though. Rouge one is what I'm hoping to get away from jedi vs. sith, and they claim it is, and would also be nice to be immersed in a war, and not just battles to go with things deciding the fate of the war. Well the Death Star plans decides the fate still, but a soldier perspective, and not this good and evil fates stuff. Disney also says they have a hole timeline set up, I'm hoping for something I like that has deep intricate concepts with lively story that I'm used to. Kotor, and Revan have proved their popularity, hopefully they come back herd rumors somewhere about it's possibility, and Star Wars just feels incomplete without him, and the Yuuzahn Vong. Was glued to every book with them being so different and interesting. Clearly the Vong can't be the same but them getting a war would be sufficient for me. Also hoping for the Jedi order to come back into play eventually, like they mentioned about balance in Ep. 7, just wouldn't feel right if it never came back. We'll see, still hoping for something good, but Ep.7 just doesn't cut it for me.
-
Mandalore25 I am pegging my problems with the new movie on my reluctance to let go of the EU too. I was so hoping to see the Thrawn Trilogy for our next set of films and I did love the verse created by most of the novels I read set in the post ROTJ Time Period. I was along hoping to see the Vong.
That being said I can also see the need to tell a new story, at least a bit, but outside of the OT each of the other movies left gaps in the story or major questions (just like E7) so I don't expect that to end anytime soon. Part of that is what gets us back in the theater to see if they answer some of those questions.
Speaking of that, where did Snoke come from? I have seen a lot of conjecture that this is Palpatine's Master, but I ain't buying that. Yet.
-
I'll never understand Disney's choice not to use the EU, I understand books need to be tweaked to become screenplays, so I wouldn't have been mad if they tweaked the Thrawn trilogy, like Disney's anti EU propaganda says. They also could have appealed to a broader audience this was for I would have felt more included as an avid Star Wars fan reading all the books (I just feel alienated, for a few years ago I knew everything about Star Wars now I suddenly know nothing because what I know never happened), and it would have appealed to the average movie goer. Granted they would have needed to recast the OT characters, but I'm ok with that, I'm up fro remaking all the Star Wars films, they're good, but could be so much better with simple story tweaks, and better casting. Then the actors would be young enough to play the parts. On second though, it's Disney, that could be a disaster. The Vong, though, Star Wars is just to foreign without them for me, just doesn't taste good with that ingredient missing.
I feel like they brushed over too many questions to get us back in the theater, was a bit irksome considering it's Star Wars, and that's what sold the tickets in the first place, they definitely could have told us more, and we still would have went back. I don't like 7, but I'll give 8 a chance, and even if I don't like that one either, I'll probably see 9 because I saw the other two. Answering some of those questions I think would have fleshed out the story more, making it a bit better in my mind.
As for Snoke, if he were Plagueis, well in 3 it wasn't specified Plagueis was his master, but it seemed strongly implied, he seems very human, and that would ruin the empire's racism (speciesism?). Palpatine's master was an alien, and that's why he (the empire) hate's non-humans. That was a thing for a long time, way before Plagueis's book, maybe even before he was named. Though under Disney, anyone else notice the empire seems suddenly not racist? Like in Rebels for example. That just ruins some depth to the empire, one of the reasons the empire was bad, without it, why fight against? Wouldn't their reign be pretty good? That's not the only reason the empire is bad, but it goes back to their base on the Nazis, giving some real world depth as well.
-
According to the Clone Wars tv series and the new EU materials in between Ep 3 and 4 (before Rebels); I think Darth Plagueis is indicated to be a Muun (same race as the Intergalactic Banking Clan); I have a theory on Snoke being one of Palpatine's Dark Side Adepts or Advisors that didn't die on the Death Star... a possibility is also that he was one of the Crimson Guards (Imperial Guards) a la Crimson Empire (Kir Kano's antagonist) who didn't die on the second Death Star..
-
Apparently the title for TFA was originally going to be called "Shadow of the Empire" (singular). Honestly I would have been really ticked off as Shadows was my favorite story.
http://www.theverge.com/2015/12/26/10667688/star-wars-the-force-awakens-original-title-shadow-of-the-empire
-
According to the Clone Wars tv series and the new EU materials in between Ep 3 and 4 (before Rebels); I think Darth Plagueis is indicated to be a Muun (same race as the Intergalactic Banking Clan); I have a theory on Snoke being one of Palpatine's Dark Side Adepts or Advisors that didn't die on the Death Star... a possibility is also that he was one of the Crimson Guards (Imperial Guards) a la Crimson Empire (Kir Kano's antagonist) who didn't die on the second Death Star..
Yes Plagueis is a Muun in the EU (he has his own book that mostly takes place before episode 1), there are other references to him canonically, but zero references to his species, allowing Disney to do whatever they want, even when they should leave certain stories alone.
One of his dark side adepts would be great, but as Disney's disdain for the EU, probably not, for it was mostly the EU that had them, though they did bring back inquisitors for Rebels. It could be a clone emperor, but same holes in that theory as well. Crimson guards aren't as badass in the new canon, I think Disney finds what Palpatine did to them to be too horrendous. A number of them were force sensitive, forced to fight to the death to ensure the strongest served, brainwashed for absolute loyalty, and some where muted to ensure they'd never speak of the emperor being a sith. The new canon indicates that none where picked for force sensitivity, if they were sensitive to the force, it would be by chance. That probably has to do with what Disney is up to with the force though, Rey suddenly being able to manipulate the force to such a degree was impossible in the EU. Anakin had the highest Midi-chlorian count ever (meaning he has the strongest connection to the force, though remember raw talent alone isn't enough, another reason training is needed), and couldn't do such things without training. In the new canon force sensitive infants can still manipulate there toys with levitation, but other than that, Disney is screwing with their own canon already. The prequels still exist, where it goes you need to be force sensitive (meaning have a high Midi-chlorian count), but still need training to consciously control the force. Are they implying Rey has a higher Midi-chlorian count than Anakin? Anakin was born from the force, unless they want Midi-chlorians not to be a thing anymore, but then anyone can become a jedi, or a sith.
-
I keep thinking of Tenebrous too, but know that is wrong as well. We just all of a sudden have a new extreme Sith. Kinda wonky or just a little off. I mean you go from Palps who was the extreme evil to now having another one just pop up? I kinda thought there would be a lead up (at least to the middle movie) where we have another extreme evil bad guy. Sith like Kylo who aren't fully trained I get, but Snoke was a bit of a stretch by supreme evil bad guy standards. I think there is a book out there about that. O0
-
Good point about the Crimson Guards and the erasure of most of the adepts from the EU (Other than that Rebels have Inquisitors.....)
A possibility from some of the new Disney materials is that the Unknown Regions (where Luke is); is also where Rakata is, and that Snoke is a very powerful dark side user from that region, but he has been hiding his skills (look at Palpy in Ep 1-3 for example, not even the Jedi Council had a clue that he was in fact Darth Sidious until the 3rd) or his power level for a long time? It would also be a good reference since we know Obi wan and Yoda went into hiding, and no one knew about their true Force skill awareness except Darth Vader and the Emperor... and yet they did not hunt them down during the time between ep 3 and 4 (or maybe they did do that and assumed Yoda and Obi Wan died when Obi Wan took the name of Ben)
There is a rather outre theory that Rey is somehow related to the Kenobi bloodline (again, somehow.) I am not certain that it is possible, simply based on the fact that Obi Wan has not once mentioned his family in canon. It is possible he had a family somewhere; and that Rey is from that bloodline somehow (could explain her apparent ability to do jedi mind tricks on stormtroopers, as well as having a higher intuition of the living Force)
EDIT:
Someone mentioned on a different page that it doesn't seem to make sense that the lightsaber duels didn't have the techniques or artistry from the PT era; or even OT era; but the thing is, these are very inexperienced people fighting. Kylo Ren, he is explicitly stated by Snoke to have had incomplete training (telling Hux to bring Ren to Snoke to finish his training), Finn, he might have had experience in melee combat as a trooper but not as a saber dueler, and the same goes for Rey, who is more experienced with her staff, not Luke/Anakin's saber. Simple fact of Luke's New Jedi Order being wiped out some 15-20 years back by Kylo Ren and Snoke, no one's around that's got the experience of Jedi/Sith lightsaber duelling, perhaps Snoke's scar on his face was from Luke's own green saber... I noticed that Rey's staff looks very similar to the one wielded by Darth Plagueis, I wonder if it was his old staff without a saber crystal that she found on Jakku (again, a junkyard planet)?
Some close up pics of her staff shows details very similar to both Mace Windu's lightsaber hilt and Darth Maul's double hilt, as well as what seems to be a control switch on it, like a lightsaber.
Since Rey is rather skilled at using her staff against people on Jakku, it might end up that she turned it into a saber staff while under the tutelage of Luke.... this would be a good thing to see for ep 8 and 9...
-This is assuming she still has the staff on the Millennium Falcon.
Back to Snoke; I really wonder who the heck he is...but perhaps, just perhaps... when Emperor Palpatine died, and Anakin Skywalker died, the Dark side of the Force, all that energy, went to the Unknown Regions to a darkside user, Snoke, who was rather young(maybe in his 30s or 40s?), and knew about the happenings of the galaxy and waited, and bid his time to start using the Force? Perhaps he had killed or been responsible for the Unknown Regions staying Unknown during the Imperial Era? This would give him access to the Empire's Holonet systems by way of their scout ships and chartering ships captured, and crews killed after he learned what he could from them?
Another possibility is that he was born of a Nightsister on Dathomir? (kinda-sorta canon if they consider Ewoks adventures/films to be canon)
-
The unknown regions are in ep. 7 are clearly in the Mid Rim, they should be completely charted, though the First Order said they recovered the maps from imperial data, so it could be they were once charted, but the charts were destroyed by the empire for some reason. Sounds odd, but the empire did convince a galaxy Jedi are evil in the span of 19 years, the long lived species should have known the truth. Though as the audience we see jedi all the time, in the Star Wars universe, the common person has never seen a jedi, and they're shrouded by myth, and legend. The unknown regions "should" still be cannon, and they're past the outer rim.
Sidious being able to hide in plain site had to do with a millennium of the rule of two power growth through hiding in the shadows (why yoda says the dark side clouds everything, it was purposeful), granted that's EU information, so Disney will probably change it to something less meaningful. Obi-Wan, and Yoda were able to literally hide as single jedi easily, neither would have a pull of the force strong enough to notice even flying by the planet, and they were on secluded planets, the chances of an imperial force user (able to sense them) finding them would be nearly impossible. So Snoke could be random on his own, and go noticed by jedi, and the empire, but I truly hope not. It would add another miraculous event to their string of them so far in seven. I want him to have a meaningful, and deep back story.
One thing I've been thinking about with Snoke is that notice we only see a hologram of him, he may not even look like that, or sound like that. He could have an image produced to hid his identity, and it wouldn't surprise me if Kylo never even met him before, for as far as I can tell, Kylo has the skills of a jedi apprentice, and a sloppy one at that. Just a thought, would be interesting to have a fake out.
-
I am loving the talk in here. My pal Chad (Lucasclones) started a great chat page up on Facebook. If anyone would like to continue their chat there I would be glad to add you (just need your Facebook Handle). There has been a ton of great discussion there even just last night. I think you folks would love it. Just paste your Facebook Handle here and I will add you.
On the discussion note, Chad and I have also decided to rev up Custom Action Figure News again to do a podcast Thursday evening starting around 6pm Eastern. All are welcome to join and I will check this thread for new comments to talk about while live. You will be able to view this video directly on the front page, our YouTube Channel, FB, Twitter, wherever the YT Link will play.
-
New time Friday evening starting around 6:45 to 7 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/Y1FX6tZ.png)
I will be using a lot of what has been shared here when we podcast. If there is anything else you would like us to ask, discuss, etc. let me know and we will try to get to it.
-
I want to know who the Old Man was in the beginning. He knew Leia when she was known as princess. Are we supposed to know who he is? Is he from the OT? "Lor San Tekka? I don't know who he could be. I need to read the book evidently he's some kind of underground agent. They said he was an old friend which strongly implies we (audience) know him. Just real confusing.
Why would Ren want to contact Vader if Vader converted to the light side. Luke probably told him the story a million times how he got his Dad to kill the Emperor. Was he brainwashed by Snoke into believing Luke was lying? No real answer, Just seems weird.
Did Ren know who Rey was even though rey didn't know who rey was? He threw that temper tantrum, when he found out a girl was helping fin. Disney almost confirms rey is Luke's daughter in a video game preview. He calls her cousin. At any rate looking forward to watching the podcast, sounds pretty cool.
-
Back on Ultracold plasma, the only things I can substantiate against it's possibility (had to fact check, been a while since I've taken physics), if a lightsaber were ultracold, it would affect air around it in a noticeable way, by cooling the air around it, that air would mix with the warm, making it seem as though it were emitting a fog, with modern tech it needs to be contained, and if the blade where cold it would not make other objects emit light as it does when it cut's through things. Theoretically it could cut through things by ultracooling the atoms, which has proven to speed up some atoms faster than at room temperature (heat causes atoms to speed up, cold slows them down, typically) causing displacement, and there where cold sabers in the EU, but the mechanics were brushed over for the occurrence I'm thinking of was in a video game. A heated plasma with a significant amount of charge carriers, using an electromagnetic field to keep the blade shape (Plasma is a state of matter like gas as in it has no shape, but is strongly influenced by electromagnetic fields when it has many atoms carrying a charge) would be most logical in comparison to real world tech, as the cold plasma was suggested by that comparison. Still it I feel the blade is too well contained with all the electromagnetic fields being generated in the Star Wars Universe. Other arguments against cauterization, were Luke having the circulation cut off after his hand was cut off, which does not take place, unless referring to the device placed over his nub, but like I said, you still bandage burns. If you watch episode 5 it doesn't bleed, if lightsbers caused any bleeding Luke would have died of blood loss before he was found (was cut from the wrist 10-15 mins to bleed out), his shirt he hid his nub in would have been bloodstained, and you actually get a pretty good look at his nub while he's hanging under cloud city (which he would have passed out by then from bloodloss), where it has no blood, but also has no prosthetic on, so it looks like a healed nub. Further proof is when Leia is shot in ep. 6, her poncho starts on fire, yet to further the blood argument Han's hands are bloody from Leia's wound. I think looking at all the evidence, it's left for the director to choose to help base the tone for the scene, like how JDeck said the prequels would have been a bloodbath if everyone bled, and how the dead solders are never bloody for they want you too feel the tide of the battle, and not the tragedy of death, or massacre as the camera brushes past them. Though as an avid Star Wars fan that's read the books, including the informational ones like the Essential Guide to Alien Species cover to cover, it leaves a bitter taste being undefined, no matter how logical from a director standpoint.
-
Its physically impossible for most star wars things to exist in reality that's why its a fantasy not exactly sci-fi. I brought up the cold plasma to make a point that, not all lasers are super hot, its a common misconception. I like a little blood in war movies, makes it seem real. Certain scenes in TFA needed it. Like I said its pretty difficult to die from a shot wound without bleeding. If you don't like the movie that's wonderful. There's plenty not to like about it without ripping it scene by scene. At the end of the day it wasn't an absolute travesty, like I thought it would be. I thought it would end up being like the Marvel movies, which I don't really care for. That's my opinion though. If you make piddly excuses not to enjoy the movie, you won't enjoy the movie.
-
Excuses? I substantiated all points, I don't see how much worse it could have been, and examined both sides of every proposed point, example furthered the bleeding argument with the blood on Han's Hands. Watching 1-6 makes 7 look even worse, like some freshman lit major's fanfic. I'm fully aware not all lasers are hot, based on the movies they are, and like I said after examining the evidence I think it's left to the director to set the tone of the scene.
I've been shown this, and have to say I agree with most of them, some are ill thought out, but the majority are good: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-abramson/40-unforgivable-plot-holes-in-star-wars-the-force-awakens_b_8850324.html
-
Those are all nit picky reasons. Not even worth getting into. If that's why you don't like it, that's unfortunate. I'm glad you're doing research on why you don't like the movie. I would much rather enjoy it. Even movies based on historical events aren't entirely accurate, all the time. Books will always be better than movies. You should have probably read the book before seeing the movie. From what I hear though the book doesn't go into a whole lot of details, but its the basic story.
-
It was better than the prequals and thats all i really cared about.
-
That old man from the beginning has me wondering too. He seems to be an old friend of Leia's at least and is seemed to be well known to the Rebellion. We didn't get a chance to talk about that much, but we only got through about half of what we wanted to talk about.
The tentative plan is to go live again Friday evening. Its not totally set, but I will let you know when we are getting back to this discussion.
Don't forget if you want to get involved on that Facebook Group my pal Chad started let me know and I can add you. The first thing you need to do is friend request me if we aren't friends on Facebook yet as that is the only way I can add you.
-
Can you add me, please? I'd like to stay in the loop.
-
So I finally saw "The Force Awakens" today as my wife and her mother wanted to see it.
I really had no enthusiasm about the film as I am still disappointed in Disney's scrapping of the Expanded Universe of novels, comics, role playing supplements, etc. in favor of a fresh start. I will not address any of that below, I will just comment on the film itself as a separate entity.
After having had a few hours to digest the movie, I am putting some of my thoughts out there.
The Good:
Harrison Ford back as Han Solo. There were several bits where it really felt like Solo as "back" and not just Ford collecting a check. My favorite bit was when the tentacle monsters were tear assing through his freighter and Han runs straight into one of the marauders invading his ship and he, without missing a beat, punches the invader in the face and tosses him into the oncoming creature's maw. That really felt like Han Solo to me. Also, his relationship with Chewbacca felt more like an equal partnership in this film than in any of the Original Trilogy films.
The heavy use of practical effects, models and sets as opposed to relying on cgi. That is what took you out of the realism in the Prequels, knowing that the actors were not on physical sets or interacting with creatures/droids that were actually in front of them. This movie, save for a few noticeable bits, stayed away from cgi and it was appreciated.
Daisy Ridley as Rey. This relative newcomer really shined in all of her scenes and will be a great role model and hero to kids (both girls and boys).
The Bad:
This is my major problem: the whole movie felt like a rehash of "A New Hope" with tidbits from the rest of the OT thrown in. Essentially they ticked off a bunch of boxes for what made people love Star Wars the first time around (i.e. human on a desert world finds a mysterious droid- check, giant killer space station - check, trench run - check, cantina scene - check, rescuing someone from giant killer space station - check, etc. etc. etc.) just pumped up on steroids (i.e. lets make the giant killer space station LOLhuge, etc.) and shot from different angles. As poorly as the Prequels were received/remembered/etc., at least they tried to tell a different story than just rehashing what had come before.
The designs of the First Order Stormtroopers. The original Stormtroopers were fearsome because their helmets resembled skulls. The First Order Stormtrooper helmets look like a cross between Donald Duck and the first live action version of Howard the Duck. Add to that the overall soft rounded look to rest of their armor and you have the Empire by way of the Apple Store. Not very imposing.
Finn was terrible. I am not one of those small minded people that are mad because an African American (yes, I know he is British but I don't know what the proper term for a British person of color is and I do not want any PC knuckleheads giving me any shit) was cast as one of the man characters. I was actually impressed that he was cast and generally like the actor, I thought he was excellent in "Attack The Block" and would love to see him on an episode of "Doctor Who" someday. What annoyed me was his constant Chris Tucker-esque reactions to situations. It was such a waste to have this actor in such a prominent place in the film if he was just going to be the "funny overreacting black guy". He deserved better. We deserved better. Also, I am not sure if that was the director or actor's intention with the character, but it really came off like Finn has a crush on Poe Dameron.
The way the new X-Wings s-foils separate is just stupid. There, I said it.
J.J. Abrams made the same mistake he made in "Star Trek" in regards to just how vast space actually is. In the OT, you got a real sense that it took significant amounts of time to go from one place to another despite the actual screen time used. In this film, it literally looked like they start up the ship, fly for a few minutes and arrive at their destination. Same thing with being able to witness the destruction of the Hosnian System from whatever planet Maz's place was on, you would not be able to see the destruction of planets, even in a neighboring system, with the naked eye as the distances are just too vast. I understand suspension of disbelief, but that is really stretching it.
The underuse of all of the Original Trilogy characters save for Solo and (to a lesser extent) Chewbacca. I understand saving Luke for Episode VIII, but having Leia, R2, 3-PO, Ackbar, Nein Numb, etc. not doing much of anything aside from being fan service was kind of a waste of having them in the film. Hopefully they will be given more to do (especially Leia) in the next 2 movies. Also, where was Lando, the smoothest pimp in the galaxy?
These are just some of the impressions I took away from the movie. While it was an entertaining way to spend a Sunday morning, it just didn't work for me.
I feel kind of cheated knowing that because of this film, great characters like Grand Admiral Thrawn, Admiral Pellaeon, Mara jade, Talon Karrde, Kir Kanos, et all and their exploits (as well as over 30 years worth of Han/Luke/Leia/etc. adventures) have been wiped from reality and relegated to the "alternate reality" of the "Legends" imprint, never to be seen or heard from again in new adventures. I understand that this film was not made for me, or those like me, this film was made for this generation.
I honestly hope it make a whole new generation of Star Wars fans though because even though it was disrespectful to those of us that kept the flames alive during the dark times between Trilogies by reading the novels and comics, Star Wars as an entity should go on.
-
Good points Dan. Good points. I like that vastness of space point.
-
I feel cheated as well in regards to it's not written for me either, nor those my age (early 20s, last years of generation Y). The prequels failed to captivate most my age past their childhood, and the few I do know were distraught the prequels ended while we were still so young, so we ate up the EU to get our Star Wars fix, only to be destroyed by our favorite characters being lost as Disney fades them out of existence. We're actually hurting a bit over it, as our childhoods are washed away. Similar to what some claim the prequels did to their childhood, but at least the OT still existed. It seems well received by kids (probably the tail end of generation Z now), but I feel skipped over simply for loving something, and I agree that Star Wars should be something to live on, but should it really be in such a poor state? Come on, I only need to mention Mara Jade, one character that makes the new canon instantly inferior. It's hard to let go of something you spent your entire life with, especially when it was the EU fans that kept star wars alive, and without us Disney wouldn't have wanted Star Wars, it would have been old news with no life for the past decade.
Vastness of space is another great point. I hadn't thought of being able to see the destruction from Maz's castle, kinda glass shattering, and it's a very obvious thing to miss, especially when they see it through the atmosphere in the daytime.
-
I thought the destruction of Maz's castle was significant, because here you have this 1,000 year old seemingly all knowing sage who was warned by Finn, the First Order was going to attack, but she brushed it off. I have no doubt she died in the assault. If not she was severely humbled. The whole movie was sort of rushed, they could have made another movie out of all the content. With the vastness of space, there's no way they had time to have a space chess game or whatever. It would have dragged the movie out even longer, and compressed the important parts, even more. Like ROTJ, it didn't have a traveling scene. They just went from one place to the other in no time.
The old man I suppose is a an Obiwan type character. He may have been watching Rey from a far. Knowing who she is, but not interfering with her life.
I feel as if this movie/trilogy was made for me. I'm the lost generation, born a couple years after ROTJ. I grew up with the OT but they didn't seem like my movies, I missed out on the fan fare. The Special Edition Fan fare was fun, but the movies themselves were disappointing, just a way to get people to watch movies they've already seen. Same with the prequels, I wasn't young enough to really like them.
Even the commercial ads on TV with TFA themes are geared towards my demographic. I've seen at least 4 different car commercials, Verison, ect. but not any Pepsi products or Taco bell toys or whatever. Nothing geared towards kids in other words, like we've seen with the other movies. This trilogy is really what I've been looking for, for a long time.
-
Maybe I'm playing a bit of the devil's advocate here, but I think that we, the fans since Day One are not the majority of those who are watching the movie at this point in time.
Having seen the movie several times now, I look around at the theater and I think that I'm one of the oldest people in the lobby.
Everybody else is a lot yonger, very likely the fan group which has been exposed to Star Wars when The Phantom Menace came out.
For them TFA might not be as much of an Ep.IV kitbash as it is for some of us.
Having said that, I want to tell you that I really like this movie.
However, I've read somewhere that about 40 minutes of film material ended up on the floor of the cutting room. I'd hazard the guess that the holes in the story would be plugged by exactly this material.
Now, I really loved Daisy Ridley as Rey. She's a strong, yet vulnerable character with lots of potential. Very likely she has been trained as a youngling by...whoever...and dropped off in safety on Jakku. Mind-wipe or not, she's definitely a tough cookie, having spent twenty years or so growing up in that harsh environment, fending for herself for quite a while.
It seems to be the fashion these days to bash Kylo Ren. He appeared weak in the Force when I saw the movie for the first time, but re-viewing the movie, he stops blaster bolts in midair, pulls the First Order officer towards him by Force, interrogates by mind penetration and does other cool stunts which we have not seen any other Force user do in any other movie or series episode.
I'm not sure that Adam Driver, who might be a terriffic guy personally, is the right actor to play Kylo Ren. I think he's too bland, expressionless, one-dimensional. My two Cents only, of course.
However, the character of Kylo Ren has the potential to be the most complex Star Wars villain. Luring his own father into a TRAP in order to overcome his uncertainty, to shake off the remains of the light side and complete his journey towards the dark side. Even Vader was too conflicted within and could not kill his own flesh and blood.
Well, I could write a lot more, from Finn over Phasma to Luke and others, but it's getting late here. Maybe tomorrow.
-
I think if its a good movie it will appeal to all ages. I wouldn't put TFA up there with the Wizard of Oz, but as far as new movies go, its pretty good. Its PG-13, so its not geared towards kids specifically, like The Phantom Menace was. But most kids love it. Its breaking every box office record except Avatar's. Even my Dad saw it, he never goes to the theater, and he really enjoyed it. Ironically the ones who hate this movie the most are Star Wars fans, just seems strange. Kids are more likely to go see it at this point 2-3 weeks into the release, teens watch movies over and over, dozens of times. Adults have things to do. I'd like to see it again soon but, just no time. Plus I don't really enjoy going to the movies.
I bet there are just tons of deleted scenes they'll put in the Bluray DVD. That will enhance the movie. Like the deleted scenes from the OT, in the bluray set.
Kylo Ren really is underrated. He is powerful, but his flaws make him a relatable character. Vader was tough, you never saw his flaws until ROTJ. Vader was the ultimate bad guy. Kylo I believe will become more Vader like throughout the next two movies. It'll show a deeper transition into the Dark side. I don't think he'll be reformed like Vader, he'll be killed in ep.9.
-
I am absolutely loving what I am reading here. So many varied viewpoints and such good thought. You guys make me proud to be a SW Fan.
-
While I see the build up for complexity in Kylo Ren, it seems to haphazard, like I mentioned before, if they use the story of what happened to Luke's order as the logical plot device that they are building towards, it will make the character worse. Explaining it out of order to make him darker will make him truly go Darker, Lighter, Darker. Most won't notice it, as the plot device will seem to make sense (for they'll show Kylo treading deeper on his dark path + this to enact full effect) in the way it the movie plays out, but it won't for anyone who puts any thought into it. Hoping it won't quite play out that way, but they're really pointing at that happening. I'm still rooting for he feels he did something unforgivable, and now feels he needs to fallow this path. It's the most logical way he could feel the light pulling him (the light side doesn't work that way, even in the new canon), in my opinion. Making him stay a lighter character than he wants us to believe, which makes me feel he'll be redeemed at the end but live to mirror the OT with a twist like they've been doing. His flaws made him seem less relatable in my mind, temper tantrums? The feeling his dad is the enemy is pretty normal for a teen, but he's what early-mid twenties, my age even, and I can't relate. Maybe the teen audience would love him, for they'll probably relate. I never questioned his power, but the problem is it's too raw, and he seems to ignorant to see his lack of discipline. Killing Han seemed irrelevant to me, his struggles are to internal for external to really have an effect on his walk down the dark side. Like one of those things someone does because they feel they have to, thinking it will help, but when all said and done it just makes things worse. Though that could be the case, the movie never showed Kylo after he'd had a chance to reflect, that would make me find him relatable, just a simple human aspect everyone has done before. We also know, Harrison Ford signed on for the next film, so there is a chance we're only supposed to think he's dead like all the characters, and did it so he'd finally come face to face with Snoke, as someone mentioned, maybe he's finishing Vader's task to destroy the sith. This would also explain why he wants us to perceive him as darker than he really is. So much potential, and very open ended to where many different things could happen, maybe Luke is even in on it? Probably not, but an example of a possibility since we're given so little, would be nice to see it not be what they seem to be pointing to.
It's not the fanbase from the Phantom Menace, that's my age group, they're younger than me, if they saw any of the prequels in theaters, it would be episode III, and they'd have been really young. The young Fanbase seems early high school and below.
40 minutes is a lot of cutting, extended editions like LOTR perhaps? Might make me pick it up. It's not like the movie was boring, I'd have rather sat there, and watched more if it would have cleared things up.
-
Kylo Ren made his choice. He killed his Father and decided to turn fully to the Dark Side. Before then he kept feeling the Light side calling him. That could have been Luke, or his own conscious telling him he's wrong. Either way he has some inner conflict, like Vader in ROTJ. Don't take it literally, like the actual force is calling him. I don't think the audience will forgive Kylo for killing Han. Kylo is not a lovable character at all. His tantrums arent so much relatable, but i think we all know someone who acts like that, to a certain degree. If you don't then well. Its pretty annoying. Vader didn't do anything like that in the OT. He usually killed unimportant characters, and it was Tarkin who blew up Alderaan. He killed Windu but Windu was sort of a jerk, nobody really cared. Of course he killed Padme, but by accident. Vader wasn't lovable but the audience didn't hate him either. I believe that was done on purpose so the audience would forgive him in ROTJ. Vader did kill Obiwan, but Obiwan allowed himself to be destroyed for a higher purpose, makes a slight difference. There's plenty of room for Kylo to be redeemed, but at this point in the trilogy it doesn't seem likely. If Kylo died no one would shed a tear. Even chewy wants to kill him. He may even survive into Ep.10.? Who knows.
I believe the guy that played Anakin will be in 8, so I believe solo and Anakin will return as a flashback, meybe a Kylo flashback. I'm not a fan of the flashbacks, but I'll get used to it.
April can't come soon enough.
They won't add the deleted scenes to the movie, it'll just be a bonus feature, if anything.
I imagine the Knights of Ren and Snoke being like Shredder and the Foot Clan in the old turtles movie. Just a bunch of messed up kids being influenced by power. That'll be cool to see how it really plays out. That's what's great about a sequel trilogy, we don't know how it turns out.
-
Another great podcast Force Awakens edition!
I really liked the aliens in TFA especially the ones in Maz Kanata's castle. They really gave me the impression they were pirates. Like that red guy, the "Crimson Corsair". He really looks like a French style buccaneer, to me anyway. His helmet sort of looks like a French bicorn hat. Even the word corsair is a French word used referring to a pirate, or freelancer. I like how that one guy had a peg-leg that was cool. They just all looked like space pirates, and a laid back pirate swagger it was cool. And I really like the band too, reggae rocks.
The monster aliens on Han's ship I thought were a little too much, they could have toned it down a bit. They definitely gave the audience the impression they were fierce animals. I do think those guys that boarded Han's ship should have been Trandosians or something. It would have been slightly better.
The way I've always looked at Star Wars aliens is the way they look is a reflection of their personality. Perfect example Yoda, looks like Einstein. You can't have another one of Yoda's species in star wars. Same with Jabba his look is his personality, slimy, fat, worm guy. I've met many types of people over the years with unique personalities and looks, and I think having different aliens throughout the movies rings true in my mind. But if you throw in a jawa or ugnaught in once in a while, that's alright. Although I associate Jawas with Tatooine, Jakku is a whole nother word. If you had a bunch of Jawas on Jakku they would take people's jobs. The locals wouldn't have that.
-
Yeah, we had a good chunk of our talk on the Aliens. I am an OT guy and wanted a return to some of the ones we are familiar with and a few new ones added in. I know, I know new planets and all.
It was a great talk. Lots of different opinions. Some I agreed with, some not so much. Thats what makes it fun. Click this link if you haven't seen the latest TFA Review:
-
(http://i.imgur.com/Fhtzpn5.png) (http://amzn.to/1RC9DRl)
Get The Force Awakens from Amazon!
Whatever format you like, blu-ray, theatrical version, digital with bonus features, amazon.com has you covered. Click here (http://amzn.to/1RC9DRl) to go select the version you want.
I ordered it myself this morning (I know, I know).
-
Looks like episode 8 will have an a-wing. Well, an evolved a-wing. http://movieweb.com/star-wars-episode-8-a-wing-fighter-photos/
That was one of my biggest moans about 7 was there was only the x-wing. No A-wing, B-wing, you couldn't really have an evolved Y-wing, but something like that. The new A-wing seems to be longer in the front, shorter in the rear, and more narrow than the ROTJ version. It looks a little more like the Jedi starfighter.
-
Agreed. I'm happy the A-wing (or a more evolved version) will be making an appearance. I even said the same thing too, why no A-wings or B-wings? The colors are inverted too, that will take some time getting used to lol.
Here's another picture of the new A-wing.
-
That is good to know.
-
I like that they went back to original concepts by Ralph McQuarrie. The A-Wing is one of my favorite designs. It looks so good in red, blue, green and probably any other color. Is that Prince Harry inside the cockpit there?
I just tumbled across this miniature series (https://www.minisgallery.com/index.php?id=arkham-horror-premium-figures-monsters-wave-3) and wonder if the creative team just copied one of their monsters for the Rathtar...scruffy looking creatures. Ugh I'll never find TFA appealing. The Sequels are just bad copy-pasting...here's one more proof. This miniature was released in 2012, so before the production of the trash awakens had begun...
(https://i.imgur.com/a32lOYb.jpg)
-
Yeah, TFA. Ugh.
-
THE FORCE AWAKENS AS IT COULD HAVE AND SHOULD HAVE BEEN.
I love this vid/audio. It's as close as we could have gotten to a George Lucas Star Wars movie.
The fan writers are so much more imaginative and creative than anyone at dudsney.
-
Now this is what I think would be a worthy first episode of the Sequel Trilogy for George's masterpiece.
I was genuinely moved while watching this. Thanks for sharing it as I forwarded the video 15 times as well. If only...
-
All I know is I am holding onto the Mandalorian and kinda the Book of Boba Fett. Everything else so far has been just ok at best. Rogue One was pretty good I guess.