The Imperial Shipyards
Imperial Creative Engineering => Custom Questions => Topic started by: Darth More on September 03, 2019, 06:10:19 AM
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So here's another issue all army-builders and collectors of Clone Troopers and Imperial Stormtroopers know:
It's a bitter truth that their torsos turn yellow over time. And there are plenty rumors why they do so!
Do they turn yellow because I smoke at home? Or is it because I usually touch my troops by hand? Maybe the lipids on my skin make them all grey n greasy...
Or does it have to do anything with the sun? And is there anything I can do about it?
You can find the answers here:
I actually wanted to share this in my custom action figure thread "Restoring Star Wars Action Figures", but I think one can find this frequently asked question here easier.
http://www.imperialshipyards.net/SMF/index.php?topic=10179.0
Let's dive into the world of mystery and chemistry here...
So while you wait for me to finish this article you can listen to this song:
Coldplay - Yellow
As a small army-builder and BIG fan of Clone Troopers, this is by far the most frustrating topic to me. Personally I think this is a scandal! It's like buying food - with an expiration date! Like many of you know, I'm a big fan of Clone Troopers (in case I haven't mentioned that already...). Some of them were always hard to find since their release and most of all Clone Troopers reach premium prices on the secondary market by now - due to a lack of supply by Hasbro! And seeing them yellow is just a massive pain in the...teeth!
And this is no (...) joke! Some of us have spent hundreds if not THOUSANDS of dollars on our armies (like Actionfigureexpert).
I started collecting in 2005. Most of the Clone Troopers of the ROTS line have yellowed by now. Even the VC06 Clone Trooper from 2010 (well I just realize that's 9 years ago already!!) has a yellow torso now...they just shouldn't change like that!
Talking about the manufacturer:
I wrote Hasbro Germany about my deepest concerns. But they told me they were not in charge of design & development. I should write to Hasbro Inc. on Rhode Island. So I did.
But! The system recognized that I was writing from Germany and redirected my e-mail back to Germany. So this was my try to tell Hasbro about it - so far!
But why does it happen? And which kind of material is affected?
Well, it happens to all hard PVC plastic parts in white and grey such as LEGO bricks or torsos of Hasbro's action figures that are fairly cheap!
For some reason the plastic/rubber used by Hasbro for arms and legs don’t seem to by affected.
But why does it happen?
It's actually the energy of the sun light that causes a chemical chain reaction. Once the sun shines onto the white or grey plastic for long enough it is only a matter of chance that the energy of the light is sufficient to break the carbon-chains of the white dye in the material (spontaneous fission). In the likely event of generating a carbon radical chem. the chain reaction is started.
Here is an example of how this happens:
(https://i.imgur.com/5BQEaWB.gif)
And it cannot be stopped unless two radicals collide (which is very unlikely, but not impossible). Those radicals break more carbon-chains and destroy the dye/color so that it appears rather yellow to our eyes from then on...
It's called radical substituition. Once a chain is divided into two radicals they split another carbon-chain which resukts in two other radicals. And then the decay has started. The time it takes to turn your trooper into a lemon depends on the amount of radicals within the material.
So keep your white/grey plastic soldiers out of the sun! Even indirect sunlight can cause radicals.
(https://i.imgur.com/dijj1lo.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/eT4XVoj.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Cln6guu.jpg)
In most cases the torsos change color, but sometimes the entire figure evenly turns yellow over time...isn't it magic..?
(https://i.imgur.com/Miow4Ia.jpg)
So can you do anything about it? The answer is: kind of...
There are three options:
Option 1: If you recieve (used) dirty figures I can recommend to you to wash them before adding them to your collection. Wash them with water, soap and a cheap (but new) tooth-brush.
Sometimes the dirt is not visible before and your figures will look much brighter after taking a bath.
For serious dirt you can also use magic erasers by Mr. Clean (or similar sponges), but beware of paint rubbing!
Option 2: If option 1 is not enough you can still lighten yellowed parts with...Hydrogenperoxide!
Option 3: If you're not happy with the results of bleaching with H2O2, then you can still bite into that lemon and repaint the yellowed parts in white, make customs out of them (repaint in different color) or even kit-bash your troops...or just burn them.
More on that later. Most of you have most likely heard about this technique already...
- Philipp
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Wow, another great tutorial. Very nice.
I can see you adding to this by showing how to do the three steps you have below.
Off to share on the front pages.
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Thank you Tamer. I will most certainly do so! So stay tuned for more pictures. They are all ready to be shared. I worked a bit with Hydrogenperoxide at the beginning of the summer and it worked quite well! Actually the torso of that red Phase I Clone Trooper is already bleached - it was much darker (yellow) before.
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Thanks form the info, and this really does suck the amounts of money spent this shouldn’t have to be a concern. Can’t wait to see more
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My collection is in the basement, away from the sun and I’m a non-smoker, but second hand clones and troopers from eBay and from figure bins at comic-cons are in all kinds of bad condition. Yellowed figures do tend to be cheaper, sooooo......
I haven’t had great success with H2O2,
so I’ve had to resort to a very dilute bleach solution.
That whitens my Troopers pretty well, but I don’t know the long term effects.
Thank you for posting this, BTW.
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See kids, this is why you need to take chemistry! :) Actually, this is a great write-up Philipp (my daughter just graduated with a degree in bio-chemistry, so we are very pro-chemistry at our house), with really good explanation. I think Tamer is right, follow ups on the treatments might be a good idea. Like Sjefke, I'm a non-smoker and I store my figures in the cellar - limited temperature fluctuations and dark - so I haven't experienced this yellowing issue, but I know a lot of other folks have so I appreciate that you are sharing.
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I would love to hear more about this bleach treatment too! Good thoughts running wild, I like it!
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DS-61-22: Yes, absolutely does it suck! I will try to reach out to Hasbro, again and think we all should make noise on this issue and serious financial damage. Thanks for your comment! Much appreciated!
Sjefke: Yes, that's a good point! The bleaching effect depends on how high the H2O2 concentration in the solution is. Other solutions also work with Chloride components.
About the long term effects...well, it's like fighting fire with fire. So there is no return to pale white, but this should not happen in the first place. Hasbro must solve this issue because it tremendously sucks! Thanks for your comment, I'm always happy when you check my content!
Starchaser: Thanks for coming by Starchaser! And congratulations to your daughter! I had Bio-chemistry in 3rd and 4th semester and advanced chemistry at High School - always loved chemistry! And I'm going to ask people at university if they know a solution for both: Hasbro to improve and find an affordable solution and for us left alone with our lemon troops...
Smoking adds to the yellow nightmare, but the smoke of cigarettes etc. turns everything into a yellow-brown miracle and your lungs into a black hell. Anyhew thanks for your comment! I'm thrilled to share more on this topic!
Tamer: Thanks Tamer! All pictures are taken and I'm thrilled to share more! I'm very happy about this nice and plentyful feedback!
Thank you gentlemen and stay tuned for more on Option 1-3!
- Philipp
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Option 1: Water & Soap Can Do Magic Already!
So this way of bringing back the brightness to your troops is obviously pretty self-explanatory. So whenever I buy loose figures online I carefully look at the pictures provided and hope that they come from a non-smoking home. Sometimes I even ask. But if they do you can get the smell out over time with water, soap and much fresh air. The smell diffuses over time in a neutral environment. But the wasing water will turn significantly darker.
Anyway warm water and soap do much magic against dirt, lipids and dust. I always use a neurtal soap - no scent or perfume added.
So this is the last batch of troops I got from ebay for 63€ shipped and it includes many prime examples for this topic:
(https://i.imgur.com/CF2HR1H.jpg)
You can also check out my other topic on restoring figures where I initally wanted to share all this:
http://www.imperialshipyards.net/SMF/index.php?topic=10179.0
And as always a shoutout to forum member FialaFernbrugg who inspires me a lot on these soapy-water-in a-bowl pictures. Check out his custom figures here:
http://www.imperialshipyards.net/SMF/index.php?topic=1624.1185
(https://i.imgur.com/pNJrMrb.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/m7p2k6S.jpg)
This is just an older picture from 2017:
(https://i.imgur.com/eevZcBV.jpg)
And here are the before and after pictures for comparison:
(https://i.imgur.com/bPDMSct.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/RRWi8Yj.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/BIJzsY4.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4B7fqfo.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/lsAqlIF.jpg)
Magic Erasers and other magic sponges:
(https://i.imgur.com/mE5f1Gu.jpg)
So in the next step I'm going to gently go over the remaining dirt and stains with a magic eraser by Mr. Clean (not sponsored). Beware of rubbing too hard and leave out painted areas as good as you can to avoid that you take off parts of the figure's factory-applied paint.
(If you want to remove this paint by Hasbro you can go ahead and solve it with acetone or other srong solvents.)
(https://i.imgur.com/SvR0rrj.jpg)
I think I am going to remove the highlighting marker stains on the TFU Jumptrooper with some alcohol, acetone or other solvent. More on that later.
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Cool deal. Thank you for continuing this. I can't wait to see you share the other methods too. With this thread folks will be able to restore their action figures to their pristine goodness!
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Great pictures. Thanks for continuing the thread. Its good to see that something as simple as soap and water can help out.
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My solution I call: D'ultimate
FIRST just rinse off the figure. Then use dish soap which has a degreaser and just smother the item/figure/etc. Let it sit then use slightly warmish water and tooth brush to scrub it all down. This will get the grime off.
SECOND when you have few ready/done put them in clear glass container and add dish soap, laundy detergent, (salt if REALLY disgusting), hydrogen peroxide and finally the "secret ingredient" OXY CLEAN (use quite a bit). When you have a reasonable little pool of this crazy sludge on bottom your good.
THIRDLY you run hot water from fauset and add JUST A BIT to container to "activate" and close lid. Shake the heck out of the container until it is thinned out. Now let it sit like 4-5 mins. Shaking a few times. Once temp on container has cooled down (not cold) open it back up and slowly fill the remainder of the container with warm-ish water. Once full ur good. Seal it back up and give it a few light clockwise/counter clockwise shakes to help contents settle.
FOURTHLY, and most important step: Place glass container directly in the sun... A location where it will always be getting rays. A window ceil for instance. For the super adamant, place it directly outside during the daytime. This step can last days or weeks depending on your desirability or the condition you wish to achieve. More yellow = More time etc. Now remember to at least a few times a day to shake the container to both let the solution NOT settle but also to move the objects inside around for maximum exposure/treatment. Open and move/re-shuffle items when necessary, but always keep the lid closed for treatment sake.
FINALLY, Once you have noticed the desired amount. Simply open and pull out items "ready" for final rinse. Lay items out and let them dry, after enough time Use the toothbrush and running water (slightly warm) to clean off the solution. This can take a few times to make sure its off (and out... Aka the inside too) of item. It will look brighter than ever, but yes... Keep rinsing it until you know its (the solution) is really gone from the item. I mean really "go to town" over and over since you want none of that left. Period.
Just let items/figures/etc. Air dry and afterwards you'll notice not only the brightest finish but will be really nice clean smelling!
Now WORD of caution: Not all plastics are the same exact materials so some can... And will often change color... As In a NEW color. So always keep an eye out. Its like how you don't want to over cook food (whatcha think the sun was for 😉) BUT as a customizer I've found this is a fantastic way to get new original parts, you can even use dyes in the mixture or left-over solution to take it even further. Example: Black RIT DYE will give you the nicest shades of blue or purple-ish to the various types of plastics. I personally love doing this with figures that kids have "customized" with pens and markers on clone troopers etc. the stuff that won't come off becomes part of the design adding new color variations and markings with the solution/dye. Afterwards just make sure you really OVER wash the parts since you don't want dye leaking/dripping out or rubbing off. This can sometimes take many rise/dry attempts.
Have fun my friends.
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Nice. Very nice. I am off to share this!
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(SID): Wow, that sound like a solid recipe to make everything shine in a new light! Again, thanks for sharing! I'm sure this is certainly the ultimate cocktail against yellowing!
Tamer: I wanted to wait for your reply. Knew you'd like it! I'm glad (SID) shared his recipe because I have not much experience with bleaching.
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The case of the Jumptrooper
First, I want to apologize to all who have waited so long for me to continue this. The shame & blame is all on me. Before I moved I recognized that the TFU Jumptrooper I got new in the multipack started to yellow at his pelvis. Only at the front part. I wanted to compare it with the one I got used and recognized that both have the same issue at the same area.
Well, it gave me a hell of a time to take a good picuture of the process. And now after I've moved, I don't find the pictures anymore. I'm afraid the pics are gone along with those of the MH Speeder Bike comparison. That's quite a pain in the toes, but also the reason for the delay.
I'll just post pictures of the troopers here later.
The essential part here is:
I was able to remove the yellowed layer with a piece of the MAGIC ERASER! So the yellowing process wasn't that asvanced. The abrasive surface of the sponge removed the damaged plastic layer. Success here!
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DARTH MORE... Bleach is okay I've tried it but its not super effective. I also get worried about plastic corrosion. Now mind you the peroxide will make it more brittle... You'll feel it on torsos'.... but its not anything crazy. Sometimes it adds a slight un-noticeable shrink (sure its the sun heat to my method) but it also ends up tightening the joints too! Which is a great bonus for beater figures! 8) Just watch out for color changes you don't want since the parts are different plastics.
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Option 2: If option 1 is not enough you can still lighten yellowed parts with...hydrogen peroxide!
I know it's all been done before, but here is my experiece with H2O2 and the result of my first experiment with this radical:
It's a sad fact that our collectibles will never look as white as they were brand new once they started yellowing. But this is a solution to get at least a little less yellow...or a little more white back - depending on your point of view:
(https://i.imgur.com/qbRCDz7.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/mss9fNH.jpg)
Since hydrogen peroxide is a radical, I try to bring as little as needed in contact with the solution. So I took my "test trooper" apart first:
(https://i.imgur.com/P6mqRE5.jpg)
Single parts may float in the solution. Therefore I used a plastic tub and a straw to hold it under the surface:
(https://i.imgur.com/IS0HtzJ.jpg)
Once exposed to sunlight you'll soon see bubbles at the part(s) you're bleaching:
(https://i.imgur.com/spdiAX7.jpg)
All you need is:
- a pair of gloves (nitrile protective gloves)
- a pair of protection glasses/goggles
- a transparent box or similar container
- Hydrogen peroxide (I used a 3% solution from a pharmacy)
- Sunlight
- Time (depending on the weather and how close you are to the equator)
You can reuse the hydrogen peroxide solution several times for many parts. It will loose strength over time though and needs to be replaced every now and then depending on how much you use it.
And here's the result after about 7 hours in the sun:
(https://i.imgur.com/QpiBpod.jpg)
Other figures might be harder to take apart. You can also isolate painted parts with wax. Keep in mind that Hydrogenperoxide will bleach all painted areas. Other paints may fade away so I recommend to you to isolate them in any case.
(https://i.imgur.com/dFUCxUd.jpg)
I also recommend to you to try the solution (SID) shared with us yesterday:
http://www.imperialshipyards.net/SMF/index.php?topic=10634.msg214879#msg214879
Here's a tutorial on how to take apart and re-assemble action figures:
http://www.imperialshipyards.net/SMF/index.php?topic=10179.msg206036#msg206036
If you have any questions or recommandations feel free to share them down below!
For more information on working with hydrogen peroxide I can recommend this video of LEGO fan JANGBiCKS here:
Also toypolloi shared another informative video on this topic:
- Philipp
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Nice, time to go share this on the front pages.
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I've done this a number of times, it's best with more powerful Hydrogen Peroxide, the kind you get at a salon shop. Sadly, it will most likely alway go back.
I did an Unleashed Padme a few years back, she's been stored in a dark corner on a bookshelf since. If you don't mind, I'll snag my old pictures, and take a new one to show the difference.
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JOERHYNO please see what you can dig up. The sooner we can all crack this once and for all: This hobby will be all the better for it!
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I've done this a number of times, it's best with more powerful Hydrogen Peroxide, the kind you get at a salon shop. Sadly, it will most likely alway go back.
I did an Unleashed Padme a few years back, she's been stored in a dark corner on a bookshelf since. If you don't mind, I'll snag my old pictures, and take a new one to show the difference.
Like (SID) says, your pictures would be awesome to add to this topic! I know many people work with 6% or even 11% solutions. I also spoke to a friend of mine who is a chemist. He says that there are ways to prevent (white/grey) plastic from yellowing. He suggested to use a special clear varnish against ultraviolet radiation. So that's something I'm going to try on my next new Stormtrooper.
It's good to see you back around Joerhyno!
- Philipp
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Here are the pics I had on favebook. Haven't done this in a while, here's the stuff I used.
Then a pic of Padme in her fI'll yellowness, then in the solution and finally after I took her out.
Here is the text I had saved with the post:
May 28, 2017
"Did a little experiment with a $1 Perky Padme Unleashed figure I got from Derek Shriver
Used some Salon strength hydrogen peroxide in a bin for a couple of days. The bin I had wasn't exactly clear, so I had to do a couple days on one side and then flip her over for another couple of days. Happy with the results...
We have an indoor uv lamp for a hydroponics herbal garden so I put her near that on the rainy days we had (which has been a lot these past weeks)."
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Wow 😵 that's some change. Thanks for digging that up mate!
Not to sound crass... I know that variation was recalled BUT that's how Padme looked in the 2002 IMAX version ::) it was kinda jarring, to the point the girls I was with "pointed" it out.
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I am wondering how hard it is to get your hands on that peroxide. I just got my hair cut last night. I will ask here the next time I get a haircut if she can get her hands on this type of solutions. Thanks for the pics Joe. Off to the front pages.
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That was some serious yellowing on Padmé there. She looks like new! I'll watch out for such solutions here, too! Thank you so much for sharing this prime example!
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Saw the front page and wanted to post today's image. Sometimes this isn't a permanent fix. It's hard to tell in the pic, I guess the only way would be to take a pic in the same lighting. But there is a little hint of yellow that came back, just so you guys know.
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Wonder if it would work again? Still it sure looks pretty good to me.
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Adam Pawlus from Galactichunter and 16bit.com answered a question about yellowing in his latest Q&A session:
http://www.galactichunter.com/gh/story/qa-star-wars-yellowing-and-pits
"if only parts of the [2002-2003 releases like Clone Troopers, R2-D2, and some later ones like Commander Cody and the Vintage Saga Collection Scout Trooper action] figures turn yellow while other parts stay white, why aren’t they made entirely of the materials that don’t go yellow?
--Derek
This is the mystery of the ages! A lot of vintage 1980s figures have been seen with yellow torsos and white limbs, as well as white limbs and yellow torsos. Perhaps there's surgery to be done there.
Some of the figures from the 1970s through the 1990s turn yellow and while there are solutions like RetroBrite, they don't always work well or forever. The same kind of discoloration continues to happen, but around 2002 there's an added wrinkle - some of the discoloration isn't discolored plastic, but rather an oily residue that can be cleaned off using the right materials. I've had some "yellow" Saga troopers get cleaned up by wiping the limbs down with either a Mr. Clean Magic Eraser or used dryer sheets.
As to why Hasbro doesn't make figures that last forever, I don't think they know which batches of plastic will go sour until years later. It's possible the factory is using a lesser grade without Hasbro being able to know for years later. It's possible there's just no desire for them to consider long-term whiteness and brightness of their figures. Longevity is a topic that comes up a lot when I'm talking with Hasbro people on this and other brands - some materials just don't last well for the ages. Clear plastic can be brittle. Several kinds of chrome deco cracks and flakes over time - look at some Beast Machines releases. It isn't always pretty to see what can happen through the years. White plastic and clear plastic do tend to discolor with age, and while there are some gems that seem like they'll never change color, I don't tend to be the kind of person that wants to test that against the fury of the sun.
Even with the best of testing and intentions, some things just plain don't last. Mattel had a number of issues with the foamy material used in its Matty Collector Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man, which started to decay and discolor within a year - despite extensive testing to make sure the material was good. Was it a bad batch? Did the factory screw up? We may never know for sure. Collectors don't tend to talk a lot about older toys - and some stuff is packed away so we'll never see or realize damage was done for years."
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"Yellowing" has many colors...
At first glance I thought there was a grey variant of Bilbo, but his red jacket actually faded to grey while being exposed to sunlight:
(https://i.imgur.com/GgtskZy.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/nc6ZwAO.jpg)
I'm going to repaint it in the exact purple color.
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That is crazy. I am telling you sunlight just changes any type of plastics. I won't even leave my canoe or kayak outside because of this same damage. I think it also weakens the plastic.
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I think it also weakens the plastic.
You're right, it does!